SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm reading the excellent post titled "Things that every WS needs to know" in the WS section and am going to have my WW read it as well when she gets home from work.

I just got to the triggers section. I do have many of them, but one in particular is a difficult situation. I'll start by saying my wife has intentionally been avoiding this trigger for the past several weeks (d day was about 6 weeks ago), and while I appreciate it, it's something we're going to have to deal with sooner or later. On d day my wife was supposed to be spending the night at her best friend's house whose husband is wheelchair bound. Her friend had had just gotten out of the hospital, and "needed some help" with general household stuff, cooking dinner, etc,hence my wife "staying the night there" to help her out. She lives just a couple of miles away.

My wife is driving restricted right now due to having a seizure last October, so I've been doing all of the driving. She has epilepsy, but it's mostly under control with meds. I dropped her off at her friend's place, she hung out for about an hour, then met up with her AP to spend the night with him. He lives fairly close to her friend's house so she actually just walked there. She wasn't answering my texts or phone calls, so long story short, I drove to her friend's house to see what was up, got the truth from her friend about where she was, drove there and confronted her. That was officially d day.

This is her best friend, and it's been pretty routine for a few years for my WW to hang out with her, at her place, for a couple of hours in the evenings, a couple of days a week, then come home in time for dinner. Obviously I'm having issues with her going there at all anymore, and she knows this. It was quite a kick in the balls to realize that I GAVE HER A RIDE TO HAVE A PA WITH HER AP!! She has however, stopped going there to visit, and she hasn't complained or tried to make me feel bad about it. On her own, she just stopped asking to go there, which is a great relief for me. This is her best friend, tho, and I'm dreading the day when she asks to go there again. Like I said, she's been avoiding even bringing it up for my sake, but it is her best friend. Am I wrong for feeling guilty that she's cut off her visits? Am I wrong for not wanting her to go there? What do I say if or when she brings it up and wants to see her friend again? I already know it's going to drive me up the wall. I don't know them very well, so me going with her would be awkward and weird. I'd basically be just inviting myself if I did.

The affair was short lived, and she wasn't meeting up with her AP from her friend's place this entire time. The messages and communication between my WW and AP only started at the beginning of March, and the PA had only been happening for 2 weeks in April before I discovered it. It was just happenstance that he lived within walking distance of her friend's place. Her friend knew what she was doing, tho, and she knew my WW was using her as a cover story. She did try to cover for my WW at first when I went there, but she did end up coming clean to me. Told me who it was and where he lived. I dunno man. I think it'd be better for me if she just ended the friendship altogether, but they've been friends for several years and really are besties. I appreciate that my WW has volunteered to stop going there, but I know she misses her bestie. It's a huge trigger for me tho. It's a weird situation.

Trust me…… the overwhelming responses you will receive to this situation is that this BFF is not a friend of your marriage and your W has lost the privilege of this friendship.

Actions…meet consequences.

Your wife has a choice and her actions will speak loudly as to how good of a candidate she is for R.

I'm dreading the day when she asks to go there again. Like I said, she's been avoiding even bringing it up for my sake, but it is her best friend. Am I wrong for feeling guilty that she's cut off her visits? Am I wrong for not wanting her to go there? What do I say if or when she brings it up and wants to see her friend again? I already know it's going to drive me up the wall. I don't know them very well, so me going with her would be awkward and weird. I'd basically be just inviting myself if I did.

You get to drive this bus, not her. Until/unless it doesn't feel awkward to you, you have the right to tell her straight that you are uncomfortable with her going to the her friend's house. In the meantime, they can talk on the phone or video chat (if you're okay with that). It's also possible that she realizes that she screwed up her friendship by sticking her best friend into the middle of her affair, and she herself might feel awkward about it.

AnnieOakley is 100% right - actions have consequences. Your WS needs to accept that if she wants a real chance at saving your marriage.

I have told her that. The usual me dropping her off there then heading the couple of miles home for a couple of hours while she visits is no longer something I'm comfortable with. Even if I believe (and I do) she's just visiting with her friend, dropping her off there is so intrinsically tied to d day and the A for me that I know sitting at home waiting for the "come pick me up please" text is going to be pure torture as I replay it over and over in my mind. It was probably the most awful day I've ever been through, and in 55 years I've been through a few really awful days. I went home alone that night and contemplated eating a bullet...

She knows. That's why she hasn't asked in the last few weeks, so she's already made a pretty big adjustment for me. I did tell her last night that I'm still not okay with it, and she seemed to accept it, if not cheerfully, but she seemed to accept it. I told her that this is one of the consequences of her actions. "If you hadn't done what you did, this would never have been an issue." I've never been controlling or told her who her friends can be. I've always trusted her. She's always been trustworthy before. This whole thing came out of nowhere, and it happened so fast and so suddenly. It really was so out of character for her. I still can't believe it even happened.

They do still text and talk on the phone and I'm okay with that. It's just the location, her being out of my sight for a couple or a few hours and the fact that her AP lives so close to there. It's been about 6 weeks since d day but it still sometimes feels like I just found out yesterday. I'm still struggling a lot with what happened. I had no idea the damage an affair could cause to a person. I'm a real fucking mess. I'd never considered it even a possibility for us.

They do still text and talk on the phone and I'm okay with that.

I’d advise truly thinking this stance through. Your adulterous wife’s best friend served as an absolute willing accomplice to both deceive and betray YOU and, as has been stated, is now therefore an enemy of the M. Her friend wasn’t collateral damage, but instead took up arms against you. The breach of trust is not only on your wife, but her friend as well.

Anyone capable of doing that would absolutely be capable of advising your W to do it again, or cover for her again, etc. I’m not saying your W’s friend isn’t capable of change, but statistically it’s truly remote. At a minimum, I would demand your W cut the friend off completely, at least for a year or something.

This is NOT "punishment" as some here would be so confused to state. Such are the natural consequences to very evil choices, and such natural consequences also serve to motivate the wrongdoers to make different choices moving forward.

Watch how your W reacts to this boundary. If she meekly accepts it, that’s another sign she could be a better candidate for R. Regardless, your W is going to need to determine, ON HER OWN, how she could ramp up so quickly into adultery and the deepest level of betrayal, even going so far as to humiliate you in the worst way by having you literally drive her in your car to be dropped off to meet her AP, all with the full knowledge and approval of her friend. Damn. If she can’t convince you she now fully understands why she did what she did, you will forever be eaten away by the fear she’ll do it again. What a horrible way to live.

If I were you, there would be no contact of any sort with that "friend".

Period.

You are saying it is ok to still be friends w the person that enabled your wife to cheat on you. In the end it was 100% your wife’s choice-but the friend made it an easier decision.

Nope. Hard boundary.

I dont believe that your wife retaining a friend to the affair is good for either of you.

I have a feeling that you feel an especially tender responsibility towards your wife. I get the notion that something about your feelings of obligation as a support system for her is being prioritized over your own self protection and need for respect and dignity.

I really feel for you and see you are a kind person.

Id strongly advise against allowing this friendship. This person knowingly attempted to provide a cover and alibi for activity of the affair. You know they absolutely cant be trusted together, and you need to send that message in no uncertain terms.

My WW's best friend knew another man was pursuing her. She advised her to "hold her ground" in texts that I've seen. So she knew the affair was possible, but not that it had actually started.

She has also done some questionable things since.

Those actions were nearly enough for me to demand she end her friendship permanently.

I reluctantly allow it because it's her best friend, and she did act as a small positive force here and there, and she didn't know about the affair at all, only in the pursuit.

If she had covered for her in ANY way, I would have insisted she end it permanently.

Friends come and go. A friend that helps hurt your marriage is no friend at all.

One thing I learned about my wife's friends is that they are HER friends. They are not my friends, and not friends of the marriage. If she wants to do something stupid, like have an affair, they will support her against me and our marriage.

This isn’t about you allowing her or not allowing her.

This is about her understanding what she did, why this is a friendship that she may have to cut off because she is choosing you over all else. Which is what marriage is supposed to be. This would be about her understanding the consequences of involving her friend as a cover.

It’s not up to you to allow it or not allow it, it’s up to her to make choices that align with remaining married. And that means not doing more harm.

Boundaries are knowing where you begin and end and where she begins and ends. You are not forcing her not to have a friendship. Simply she has put herself in a position that now she has to choose. She is wisely choosing her marriage and that is a good sign. This isn’t on you. The last thing you need right now is to have to consider her feelings about circumstances she caused. It’s simply too much to carry.

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:11 PM, Tuesday, May 27th]

Anyone who knew about it and didn’t tell you, and especially anyone who helped her cover it up should be dead to both of you.

Well, she hasn't talked about going hang out with her friend, but I talked to her about it. She knows now in no uncertain terms that I am absolutely not okay with her hanging out with this friend anymore, and she accepts it without resentment or argument. Which is a bit of a relief because I was anticipating this to be one of our first major stumbling blocks. I just laid it out for her. This friend knew about the affair, never tried to talk her out of it, knew she was being used as an alibi, and tried to cover for her when I confronted her. She is toxic to and not a friend of, our marriage, or our efforts to reconcile. I told my wife "you're the one who dragged her into this, and she was a willing accomplice. If you're truly serious about R, then you need to understand why I'm stuck on this. It's not only a trigger, but a big red fucking flag." She does understand, she gets it.

One little wrinkle is that this friend is moving out of state in August, so she'll not even be in the area after then anyway. I know my wife would like to see her one last time before she moves, might ask for that one last visit, but if I say I'm not okay with it, I don't think she's going to make an issue out of it. She's serious and committed to R, I feel like I'm being prioritized now, and it makes me feel, well, pretty damned good if I'm being honest.

Well, this one caught me off guard. My wife is going on a girls lunch this afternoon with some friends from work. She doesn't drive so I'll be dropping her off at the restaurant after work and one of her friends is going to bring her home. No big deal, right? Well, she works until noon, and the lunch starts at noon, but it's fairly close to her work. She took some clothes with her so she can change there when she clocks out and only be a few minutes late. She used her overnight bag for her change of clothes and put it in the car last night so she wouldn't forget them.

Seeing her walk out the door to put her overnight bag in the car, the same bag she used when she had her PA, triggered me. I told her I was triggered. Not in a shitty way, but actually calmly talked about it. I explained "you know, the last time I saw you walk through that door with that bag..." She was pretty understanding about it, and wanted to do something to ease it so she got a different bag and even threw the old one away. I found that to be pretty thoughtful and appreciate the effort to accommodate me and all, but I'm still not happy about her going on this thing now. She volunteered to not go, but I don't want that either. I feel like that would be unreasonable and I don't want to turn into one of those guys who controls everything his wife does. This is a thing the girls from her work do every couple of months or so and she's always gone before. I know she's not up to any shenanigans. It's a lunch with the girls, but I'm almost out of my mind over it and reliving d day all over again. I'm having a lot of negative thoughts about it and struggling to not get into an argument with her. An argument that I would be starting because she's actually being very accommodating and understanding right now.

She offered to stay home. I told her to just go because it had been planned for a couple of weeks now, and it's one of her things. 27 years of marriage and I've never been like this. It's just not me. Before all of this it wouldn't have bothered me a bit. As it is now, I'm going to be on the edge of my seat the whole time she's gone, probably about 2 hours. Wtf is wrong with me? I hate what this has done to me. I hate what I feel like I'm turning into. I hate that I'm freaking out over my wife going to lunch with friends. Am I overreacting?

I feel like that would be unreasonable and I don't want to turn into one of those guys who controls everything his wife does.

Well, we can’t ever control anything anyone does anyway, may as well start working on your response — as your response is the only thing you have control over. That takes a lot of practice too.

You can ask for boundaries, and if they aren’t followed, you have your answer about whether the M can be what you need it to be.

Your wife needs to take the lead on many of these boundaries.

She has to know trust has been obliterated and needs to be rebuilt, which takes HUNDREDS of consistent, kind, considerate actions over many months (maybe years). Which should mean, she should be extra aware of when she leaves the house to see how you are doing, at least early on.

You also have to give yourself some room.

You weren’t a paranoid person before, however, life really was out to get you. Thus, the whole "surviving" mode you’re in now.

Of course, you never worried about a girls lunch before, because your wife had a blank check with all the trust in the world.

Infidelity happens within the bounds of your relationship, that’s part of the emotional trauma.

You were in a competition you didn’t KNOW you were in. That kicks in your fight or flight mode, and that thing doesn’t turn itself off, until you feel SAFE. And that, once again, takes time, takes healing and if you’re working on the M, it takes all that aforementioned work by your WS.

What do you think and feel about needing to be your W's chauffeur? Can you afford taxis/ubers/lyfts/etc.?

In the weeks after d-day, I took my W's car keys and then dumped her car. I drove her everywhere, which increased our together time and actually helped me heal. Then I got bored with the task and gave her back her keys. IOW, if you want to perform the service, so be it. If you don't, it may be worth the $ to avoid doing it.

Depending on what they talk about, the time with woman friends can be positive, negative, or meaningless to your W's recovery. Is there a way to verify the topics of conversation and what is said?

They do still text and talk on the phone and I'm okay with that.

Has she apologized to you for covering for the affair? Has she apologized to your wife for supporting her infidelity and participating in damaging her marriage? Did her husband know? If not has he been informed of her rather liberal views on fidelity and deception?

If you’re going to allow them to keep contact I think she should meet some minimum standards in support of your reconciliation.

Well, we can’t ever control anything anyone does anyway, may as well start working on your response — as your response is the only thing you have control over. That takes a lot of practice too.

You can ask for boundaries, and if they aren’t followed, you have your answer about whether the M can be what you need it to be.

I should have said "one of those guys who tries to control everything his wife does...

I've set some boundaries, and she's on board. I haven't said "I dont want you to socialize with your friends anymore," tho. To be fair, she asked if I'd be alright with her going to this lunch with her friends a couple of weeks ago whenp she was asked, and before she gave an answer. I said I was fine with it. It just triggered me seeing her with that bag and I started ruminating again and find myself suddenly not so fine with it. However, I already said I was cool with it, and told her I'd run her over there. When she realized I was triggered last night she did say "I don't dont have to go," and was ready to cancel if I really wanted her to. I just... I'd feel like a controlling asshole if I asked her not to go, and don't want her to start resenting or feeling trapped at home. Her not being able to drive is already a blow to her, and it really bothers her a lot. She has already curbed a lot of her social activities in lieu of staying home or doing things with me as it is.

She has to know trust has been obliterated and needs to be rebuilt, which takes HUNDREDS of consistent, kind, considerate actions over many months (maybe years). Which should mean, she should be extra aware of when she leaves the house to see how you are doing, at least early on.

She gets that, and doesn't get that. She knows trust has been obliterated, and says often that she wants to earn it back. Otoh, she gets a little frustrated sometimes when I point something out and says "I promised you I won't do anything like that ever again..."

"Yeah, well, you made the mother of all promises on our wedding day, too, and look how that turned out..." she ends up conceding and just says she's sorry.

You also have to give yourself some room.

You weren’t a paranoid person before, however, life really was out to get you. Thus, the whole "surviving" mode you’re in now.

Of course, you never worried about a girls lunch before, because your wife had a blank check with all the trust in the world.

Infidelity happens within the bounds of your relationship, that’s part of the emotional trauma.

You were in a competition you didn’t KNOW you were in. That kicks in your fight or flight mode, and that thing doesn’t turn itself off, until you feel SAFE. And that, once again, takes time, takes healing and if you’re working on the M, it takes all that aforementioned work by your WS.

Yeah, I need to give myself some room. I feel like I need to give her a little room, too. I've been beating this dead horse quite a bit over the last couple of months and she's been dealing with it really well. I just worry that one of these days I'm going to beat that horse too many times and it's going to start being counterproductive. I don't like being like this, constantly paranoid, waiting for the other shoe to drop, and reminding her of the damage this has caused.

I know we're still fairly early into this, but it has been a couple of months now, and every signal and sign she's putting out there is of remorse and a strong desire to prove to me that she's a safe partner again. She hasn't been resisting or battling me about any of the boundaries I've set, and she's not just tolerating it, she's really pretty badly wanting to make me feel safe and prove that she's trustworthy again. I know her whereabouts pretty much 24/7 now, and she hardly goes anywhere without me anymore anyways. I just dropped her off about 45 minutes ago and she's texted me about 5 or 6 times already just to reassure me she's thinking about me and that she's not doing anything she shouldn't be doing. I do appreciate that, but I gotta wonder, how much is too much as far as me wanting her to be under my nose all the time? Is there no such thing as "too much" in a situation like this? One minute I'm fine with whatever, then the next minute I'm an anxious mess.

I hate... hate what this has done to me. To us. It's times like this that I wonder if I'm ever really going to recover from this. But then she'll come home, close the blinds, take off all of her clothes, show a ton of contrition, thank me for "allowing" her to do her thing, and love bomb me. And goddamnit, that does generally tend to work... I'm just a roller coaster of emotions and a confused mess still. I still just can't believe it happened at all.

[This message edited by Pogre at 9:23 PM, Friday, June 20th]

What do you think and feel about needing to be your W's chauffeur? Can you afford taxis/ubers/lyfts/etc.?

In the weeks after d-day, I took my W's car keys and then dumped her car. I drove her everywhere, which increased our together time and actually helped me heal. Then I got bored with the task and gave her back her keys. IOW, if you want to perform the service, so be it. If you don't, it may be worth the $ to avoid doing it.

Depending on what they talk about, the time with woman friends can be positive, negative, or meaningless to your W's recovery. Is there a way to verify the topics of conversation and what is said?

I'm pretty much where you were with it. It's more time together. In her case it's a necessity because she's had a few seizures in the last 15 years, they happen in frequency any time from every few months or sometimes she'll go more than a year without one. What sucks is there's no warning. No aura or tingling or anything. When she has one, she doesn't even realize it. She has to be told.

She hasn't had one in 8 months now, but hasn't been cleared by her Dr to drive for this entire time. This is the longest stretch she's gone without driving since she's had her license. It's been hard on her, to lose a freedom like that, and I've been fine playing chauffeur to ease the sting of it a little bit. I hardly ever say "no," and I never make her feel bad about it. Tho she did take advantage of my good nature that one time, d day, in a pretty nasty way... like I said tho, now she hardly does anything without me, and certainly no more fucking stayovers "at a friend's house."

Like I said, it's been 8 months this last stretch, and I'm not bored of it. It's just a part of our lives. She's been driving restricted several times for a few months at a time over the last 15 years or so, so we're used to it, and no, we'd rather not spend the money on Uber or Lyft.

Has she apologized to you for covering for the affair? Has she apologized to your wife for supporting her infidelity and participating in damaging her marriage? Did her husband know? If not has he been informed of her rather liberal views on fidelity and deception?

If you’re going to allow them to keep contact I think she should meet some minimum standards in support of your reconciliation.

She has not apologized to me, and likely won't because we don't know each other that well. I've only actually met her a couple of times. She hasn't apologized to my wife either, but I sure made a point by saying "just how good of a friend is she, that she never tried to talk you out of it or told you not to use her as an alibi? She helped you almost destroy our marriage. So again, just how good of a friend is she, really..?"

I'm pretty sure her husband knew about it, too.

As far as contact goes, they occasionally text or talk on the phone, but she hasn't been over there since d day, and my ww has told her why. She knows I'm not okay with how any of that was handled, not cool with her hanging out there anymore, and didn't appreciate that she not only didn't try to talk some sense into my wife (not that she'd have listened anyway, but still...), but helped facilitate it and sent me on a wild goose chase the first time I stopped in there that night looking for her. I actually initially believed her that my wife had "walked to the store" until I got a ways down the road and stopped fooling myself. She wouldn't have just randomly decided to walk to the store like that, and deep down I knew it. It wasn't until I drove back there, saw her texting my wife on her phone, and held her feet to the fire that she came clean and told me what was really happening.

You know what the real kicker to this is? Her friend's husband had cheated on her not once, but twice, and they're still together. She's been through it. She knows wtf it's like, and turned around and helped my wife do it to me. What the actual hell, man? They're older, her husband is now wheelchair bound, and she's not in the best shape now either. My wife was spending a lot of time there, a few days a week, helping them out around the house and keeping them company. Like, legitimately. She only used them as cover for a PA the one time that I caught her. I know this because I was able to confirm it reading some of her messages on her phone. She's always come home that night before. That was the first time she tried the "spending the night there" trick. She hasn't been back there since, and I think her friend misses having the helping hand around, but that's too fucking bad. I'm not budging on that one.

I'd feel like a controlling asshole if I asked her not to go, and don't want her to start resenting or feeling trapped at home.

At this point in your recovery, everything in your world feels out of control — so, you’re only asking her to be more considerate for the time being.

She truly needs to consider how upside down everything is for you and that nothing is mundane right after emotional trauma.

You’re not trying to be a controlling asshole, you’re just trying to get your feet back underneath you.

And that is far more important than any social event your wife may or may not want to attend.

I hate... hate what this has done to me.

I’m starting year 10 of recovery, and I still feel the exact, same, way.

For me, I found the healthiest choice I made is to always hate what happened. Ain’t nothing good about cheating.

I did get to choose how I responded to the Hell of it all.

I did find a new level of inner strength, and I think you’re discovering your own strength right now, as bad as things are today.

It's times like this that I wonder if I'm ever really going to recover from this.

When members here told me it takes 2-5 years to really recover from this stuff, I was certain, there was no way I had the patience to push through YEARS of dealing with it all.

The upside is, it absolutely got better.

I really only ever think about the topic when I jump in here at SI to share my own experience. On a day-to-day at home, things are better than ever. I tend to go with they are better because my wife and I worked our asses off to get here, because we had the same goal to heal — in spite of her shitty choices, not because of them.

I hate that it happened and yet, I am also happy me and my Mrs. finally figured out how to be married.

Again, it is super early for you. You will find a way forward, solo or if you choose to stay.

Just be good to you. Protect your space. Give yourself all the room you need.

As far as contact goes, they occasionally text or talk on the phone, but she hasn't been over there since d day, and my ww has told her why. She knows I'm not okay with how any of that was handled, not cool with her hanging out there anymore, and didn't appreciate that she not only didn't try to talk some sense into my wife (not that she'd have listened anyway, but still...), but helped facilitate it and sent me on a wild goose chase the first time I stopped in there that night looking for her.

I would strongly suggest the consequence/boundary of her dropping this foul "friend". I know you’ve said she can’t hang out there - not nearly enough imo. This other woman is poison! I’d demand she cut off all contact with this old hag.

You know what the real kicker to this is? Her friend's husband had cheated on her not once, but twice, and they're still together. She's been through it. She knows wtf it's like, and turned around and helped my wife do it to me. What the actual hell, man?

Bet you anything it’s because this witch has come to hate all men, and as such, you qualify for her vitriol.