SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The advice on having a private investigator having a look at those phones is a good suggestion. It would cost a little but if there’s anything left, they’d find it. If you want to pursue doing it on your own, a software package called "dr. Fone" works pretty well and really isn’t hard to use.

Regarding the polygraph, I think if I were in your shoes, I would ask her again if her timeline is everything. And that if it is, that you will at least give R a shot. I would also tell her that if you have to find out there is more, and that she’s still lying via the polygraph, that you see no way forward with someone who cares more about lying and hiding than the pain you are experiencing.
If you go that route, you can’t backtrack though. So be certain.

Regarding the polygraph, I think if I were in your shoes, I would ask her again if her timeline is everything. And that if it is, that you will at least give R a shot.

I would certainly hope & pray OP would demand more than simply a written timeline as all the prerequisite he needs to start R. Having confidence in full disclosure, via the polygraph affirming the written document is 100% truthful & comprehensive, must be a mandatory condition to consider R, but my goodness, OP would be exceedingly ill-advised as this being the only condition. She’s still defending AP, demanding him to rug-sweep, and outright disrespecting him still.

OP, please don’t use the timeline as the only criteria for R !!!

MD - I haven't read all the responses here and I'm probably going to repeat a lot of things you've already heard. I'm sorry for that, maybe it will give weight to some suggestions, possibly I have something different to day but let me tell you, I wish I could you a big bear hug for all the pain you're going through. You sound like a good guy and much better than she deserves.

Your wife, I hate to say it, but she sounds like a pretty garden variety cheater to me. I would not be surprised if this was not the first time. You probably have already thought this. I would. She seems,even from your description, like someone who likes the attention and fawning she gets, maybe she's insecure, maybe it's narcissism, maybe she's restless with her life, maybe it's something else, but this is not a one time thing - I don't mean the affair, I mean her attitude and need for this kind of "admiration" or attention, whatever one calls it. It doesn't seem to be a sexual need as he is unattractive as you say - THAT IS OFTEN THE CASE!!!! You would be surprised. At some level, it's any port in a storm. There's a whole thread on this site about how they affair down. And they often do, because a lot of it is about being praised, feeling special, feeling desired, wanting something new...etc. These, to me, are personality defects, not just behavior to a specific event. Yes, this guy should be fired IMMEDIATELY but it's not necessarily easy (as a former manager I know) you have to go through a process and it can be a lengthy and detailed one. It might also be that the management structure there is also sleazy so this might not be that big a thing to them, but it CAN be hard to fire or even discipline someone unless you have multiple complaints. I think you may have to get your items in a different way - is there anyone else who can purchase these items over there? She's caused you and the family business a lot of problems with this - potential financial problems and loss of business in a hard economic time and THIS SHOULD BE EMPHASIZED TO HER. There are CONSEQUENCES to this behavior, not just with your marriage, but with your financial life and security. This can't just be shoved under a RUG. which is what she's trying to do.

What she's done is typical. It's called love bombing to try to reassure you this meant nothing, just go back to sleep and forget about it. When that does't work it goes to rug sweeping, and then anger when you insist on knowing what the hell happened and setting boundaries. You're requiring her to be accountable and she just wants to rug sweep and pretend it didn't happen.

You can't do this. Obviously. This has severe emotional implications in ANY relationship...and it potentially has severe financial implication as well. This is not like denting the car. This is crashing the marriage. It's serious. To me, my main feeling about cheating, esp in a long term relationship - which took ME by great surprise when my husband did it - was....I never saw this coming, I never thought he could be "that kind of person". I saw a whole side of him I'd never seen before. That was the most disturbing thing because I wondered....well, what else was there? What else could he do? WHat could he do in the future? You realize that you don't really know the person you thought you knew best in the world. I always prided myself on my judgment in people. You can imagine where that went. So....bottom line....you don't really know your wife anymore. To the extent you need polygraph tests and to recover messages. And you are NOT overreacting....you don't know your wife anymore. And she's not helping you to get to re-know her or learn about this side of her and how to handle it - if you want to.

It is HER responsibility to help you to feel secure, comfortable and trusting of her again by revealing everything about her that you don't know. Making you feel like she is a safe person again, that you can trust and whose behavior you can predict, including in a BUSINESS. She sounds very immature.

I think you're proceeding in the right way with the poly - which she might pass too, people do, even liars. I would pursue getting the recovered messages if you can. Even if it costs quite a bit....you need to know who you are married to and what she is really like....now....and what she is capable of. If you can't re-establish that base line and she's not helping you, how can you marriage continue and certainly improve? She needs to work with you to re-establish your sense of who and what she is and what she is capable of.

Also....this young man was not a predator. He was an opportunist as many young men are. Your wife may have actively been flirting with him, you don't know. She was as much a participant in this as he was. If a young man kept coming on to me like that and I was not interested, I'd ignore him, let him know, tell him I'd tell my husband, or tell the store manager, or not go back there or something like that or a combination. I wouldn't keep going and let this happen. When I've had men come on to me or I could feel the potential, even now because I'm not unattractive even at my age....I try to defuse it or not be involved or cut out the conversation, etc. I don't let it continue. She is AS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS AS HE IS. More, I think because she is the older person and she is married and she is doing this in front of her children. Obviously none of his is acceptable. Don't let her play the victim with you, nor assume she is one. She isn't. She's a participant.

I think she has to start realizing the damage she has done to you personally, to your marriage, to your business situation, possibly to your children as they wonder what the hell happened, and that SHE HAS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS AND TRY TO MAKE IT RIGHT. SHE has to do this! This is HER responsibility to change and correct and show you she's not going to do this again...or if she has some kind of issue or problem that is ongoing and like to recur....SHE NEEDS TO FIX IT. You can't. You can't fix someone else.

This is not YOUR fault....If she hasn't already....she might start blaming YOU because that's a typical part of this behavior and DO NOT ACCEPT ANY OF THAT. This is HER FAULT. It's not your fault, and it's not the clerk's fault, frankly. It's HER fault. She needs to come clean and she needs to change and she needs to reassure you and let you know clearly and accurately who she is and what she will be.

I'm sure people here have had many suggestions for you and hopefully resources you can use. I would continue with the poly and do try to get those messages if you can. I'd talk to an Iphone expert if you can or maybe a PI. I know it's money but....it's your future and your kids' future too, I think it's worth it. You have to KNOW what you're dealing with or doubt will wreck everything anyway. Doubt doesn't just go away, you need real information, corroboration and confidence.

Good luck!!!

Back on here to respond to the issue about a crime. Please understand I feel very much as if the guy should pay but truthfully the groc org sound blasé about it. At the end of the day hounding him will not change the past. Your wife cheated on you. That should be your focus. Your future depends to issues between you and your wife. To hell with that guy.

Gr8ful,

If you take in my whole paragraph, I’m not advocating he pursue R based on her just telling him the timeline is accurate, that’s silly. Cheaters lie, and they lie even more when caught.

I was saying that he could tell her that if the timeline is truthful, and the polygraph shows no deception that he would try to work on the marriage with her, but that if the poly showed she was still bullshiting him that he was gone.

It’s a statement to make to the WS encouraged to make a parking lot confession.

[This message edited by OhItsYou at 6:08 PM, Friday, April 24th]

Cooley,

Yes, you are absolutely right about the betrayal being an issue between man and wife, but the driver for getting the AP removed from the store is contained in this extract from a post by the OP:

I really don’t know what to do now. I feel abandoned by her. I feel a deep need to press forward, because some justice should be done here. But also, because we can’t shop at our local store (we are rural, and the next closest location is 90 minutes’ drive away, not feasible) now we can’t get a lot of the products that we need, including the foods and produce to which my children have become accustomed all through their young lives, because I WILL NOT allow them to go back to that store while that guy is still employed there.

My children have been asking my wife questions as to why we can’t shop there anymore, and she keeps making up fake excuses like "we’re short on time", etc., but I don’t know how long they’re gonna keep believing that.

Not only that, but we need the products they sell for so many items from our menu in our shop. It’s going to have a huge negative affect on our business if we have to shop at other stores instead of this one, because this one has the best products, best availability, and best prices by far compared to all the others. We will have no choice but to jack up our prices in our shop, which is going to piss off a lot of our customers.

Basically, having this guy still working at the store harms everyone.

The only solution I can see is to press forward and try to have this guy removed from his job, that way my family can utilize the store again, and that way hopefully he will think twice before he propositions another married woman, and creates more destruction in a family, the way that he did with ours.

In infidelity terms this may be a sideshow, but it has a big impact on MD78's family's daily life. That is why getting the AP out is important, and why suggestions have been made to try and provide as much leverage as possible for MD78 to get the guy booted out. Personally, I hate the fact that the store has such a 'don't give a sh*t' attitude about the behaviour of its staff, but opinions count for nothing.

We all want what is best for MD78, and we manifest it in different ways. And that is the strength of this forum, which sets it apart from so many others where simple, cookie-cutter 'solutions' are posted. In SI, ideas and suggestions are debated and stress-tested, which doesn't happen in a lot of other forums. It is great that a few other infidelity forums refer people to SI, which speaks volumes for the quality of peoples' contributions.

[This message edited by M1965 at 1:00 AM, Saturday, April 25th]

I don’t want to hijack this but it feels like concentration on a pos like the grocery guy is a way to give a barrier between the bs and the fact of the cheating by his wife. If this is what he needs to get through this hell I support it 100%. I just don’t want that nematode to take up so much head space that the behavior of his wife gets buried a little. BUT all of us deal however we can. I certainly did. I get the prize for rug sweeping.

Back to the groc guy. Imagine living inside that head for the rest of your life.

Totally get your perspective, and appreciate it. The AP is not the main focus. He is almost a generic 'could have been anybody' cypher. Which in itself is something the WW in this situation needs to explore. Why was some random nobody worth betraying an 18-year marriage for? The answer lies in the wayward wife's insecurities, and possible desperation for validation from any source.

MD -

Sorry you are here. I don't have much to add, but I did want to support your gut reaction to your WW. You noted she gave you a timeline with 16 pages and some very uncomfortable details. In my mind this raises some suspicion. I have found in a number of circumstances, (including a lying wife) where someone is trying to conceal something, one way they will do so is by giving a great deal of attention to something else. Typically they give attention to something which is less problematic in the situation. Like a car sales man who spends an inordinate amount of time and attention discussing an insignificant dent while directing your attention away from a weak transmission. My impression when reading your account of your wife's timeline and response to the prospect of a polygraph was deep concern about this sort of possibility. If she gives you a great deal of detail about the EA, you will be less likely to follow through with your suspicions about a PA. The tactic works based on the unspoken implication that, "if I told you this much and there were more to it, I would have told you about that too." This tactic is not to be trusted. Hopefully if you recognize the tactic, you will be less venerable to it.

You seem concerned, but still aiming at reconciliation. I think you are right to be concerned - very concerned. I would encourage you to put plans and commitments to future outcomes on hold. Wait until you have a satisfactory resolution to your issues about truth and trust. Remain focused on getting the truth and following through with the poly. I look forward to hearing the results. I hope you find them satisfying, but under the circumstances, I hope you are mentally prepared for the full range of possibilities.

MD 78, sorry you find yourself here. Some random thoughts…

First, just based on pure statistics, you are probably going to get divorced. The majority of marriages going through what yours is right now end either immediately or eventually.

If you stay married, it will probably be a dead marriage or one full of suffering. You will be dragging the affair along with you for the duration.

For successful reconciliation is absolutely possible, this place is full of examples, but it is a risky bet. It is a high risk venture, both parties absolutely have to be committed, and things have to go right. It is a beautiful thing when it happens, but it usually doesn’t.

Given the odds, now is the time to lawyer up. To find out all of the details and all of the intricacies of the path that you will probably end up on based on statistics.

Seeing a lawyer also gives you knowledge and knowledge is power, and power is control. Your wife has been in control mostly up until this point. Even confessing to you was an act of control, as she decided where and when and what to tell you. She is now going through that phase where she is seeing that control slipped from her grasp, and she’s responding as they usually do. She’s on that yo-yo trip.

The way she retains any sort of control is through your trust of her. Even now you ask her questions and even though you doubt her answers, you don’t 100% doubt her answers. It is that measure of trust that allows her to try to control the situation.

You and her both falsely believe that it is somehow on you to prove that she is lying, and that things were worse than what she is telling you. Flip that on its head. Instead of you trying to prove that she did do it, put the burden of proof on her to prove that she didn’t do it.

The most incredibly powerful thing you can tell her over and over again right now is, "I don’t believe you". Try it out. When she says that they only kissed just look at her and tell her you don’t believe her. When she says she will do anything to avoid seeing him again, tell her you don’t believe her. When she tells you that she wants chicken for dinner, tell her you don’t believe her.

That last one is actually the most important one, by the way, because it sinks home the idea that you don’t know who she is. It is a message sent to both her and you. You don’t know who this woman is standing in front of you, and now you need to watch. Forget everything you ever knew about her and see her as she is standing right in front of you. Drop everything that you thought you knew about her.

She will feel naked, and you will probably be disgusted by what you see.

Sending strength!