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I'm 16 months post DD and whilst I can definitely say I am healing in myself, I still feel so many conflicting feelings about my husband. I have done so much self healing - I do EMDR, attend a Buddhist sanga, go yoga, meditate, go out in nature, throw myself into my work and the pain in my heart in slowly, slowly healing. However, I can be having a lovely family day and then, boom!, my brain reminds me 'this man cuddling you in the sofa cheated on you whilst pregnant and continued for two years then hid it for a further 12!' and my mind fills with a mix of indignation, anger and disgust'.

This happens even more if I've had a bad day, or I'm stressed. Like yesterday I went to visit a friend in a mental health facility and found it so upsetting. Later that evening, I found myself pulling away from my husband's comfort and bracing myself when he cuddled me in bed.

My brain screams for me to leave in these moments as I find myself filed with disdain at being married to a person capable of this BUT at the same time...I love him, I know he is remorseful and has changed and I have so much compassion and empathy for the man I love who screwed his and his families lives up and has to live with that knowledge forever. I wish I could undo that for him even if we weren't together...I hate that he has to live with that level of regret.

I just don't know if these feelings will ever change. It's like I can get over the pain but not the moral dilemma. I don't think it helps that I have childhood trauma and may be neurodivergent. I just feel like whether I stay or leave my marriage, this moral dilemma will haunt me.

Any advice welcome, particularly from those who have experienced this.

[This message edited by Evio at 10:13 AM, Sunday, April 19th]

I understand how you feel and it happened to me for a few years after Dday.

What worked for me was reminding myself that he’s not the same cheating lying jerk he was — he’s different now. I can see it. I recognize the effort being made.

It also helped that I financially protected myself. That took much of the stress out of the situation as well.

Thank you for you reply 1stwife...Did you tell him how you felt when you felt conflicted? My problem is, unlike my husband, I have always been an open book and I process my thoughts out loud. This means everytime the doubt and disgust kicks in I tell him my thoughts and he understandably is feeling defeated by this.
The recent example of feeling emotionally fragile following my friends mental health crisis and then dwelling in the affair has led him to feel he unfairly takes the brunt of anyone else's problems as it will always come back to him.

I really struggle with being too honest to the point I cannot even lie if I'm late for work. Should I be keeping some of these though to myself and processing them by reminding myself his not that man anymore?

As for financial independence...all out money is tied up in a big house but we would have enough to split if we sold it and neither of us be desdetute.

Hi Evio,

I want to suggest something that I really think will help you. You may not want to do it, but based on my experience, I am convinced it helps.

Every time you have these triggers, you need to talk to him about it in detail. Tell him the exact struggles and pains you are having. Identify and discuss the root injuries. And yes, he will need to respond...each and every time.

This is how you heal. This is how he makes amends. This is how those utterly horrible thoughts eventually lose their overwhelming power.

And yes ....you will have to talk about the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.....etc. It is bizarre, but that is how it works for some reason.

[This message edited by WoodThrush2 at 2:12 PM, Sunday, April 19th]

It sounds like your brain is still in protection mode.

Especially in the early days of having good days, my mind kept guard, constant reminder that this was the person who caused all this pain.

Overthinking can slow healing, and I am a world champion overthinker — but I worked on that too, and really worked on focusing my thoughts on the present versus lingering in the past.

Honestly, the circular pattern of good days and trauma reminders sound normal (and yeah, it is no fun).

For me, after a while, I started to see more of my wife in the present day, then her worst days, it just took far longer than I wanted.

First, the back and forth lasts a lot longer than anyone wants it to. WRT behavior, I was on board for R from d-day on, but anger at the unjustness of the situation reared its head again and again.

To R, you've got to accept that this is just another area of life in which justness and R are incompatible. We can have one or the other, but not both, and certainly not both simultaneously.

Have faith in yourself to come down on one side or the other in due time.

*****

I'm usually on the side of sharing feelings, but with this, at a year and a half out, not so much, maybe. If you think it's too early to hold back expressing anger, you might be right. If you can tell your H that you're having trouble with your decision, that may help you more than expressing anger.

Do you see your problem as your own to solve? I do. I think this problem that you describe is a 'simple' matter of choosing one path or another - justice vs desire to stay together. I understand that you are a victim of your H's infidelity, as all BSes are, but the fact is that we have to deal with the feelings of being betrayed, and at some point we need to decide to let the feelings go in order to heal. Is this the time for you? Maybe - you're raising this issue, and that may mean you are ready. OTOH, maybe you're not ready yet.

If you still the issue as anger, disgust, desire to hurt your WS - all of which are normal up to a point - what's the positive outcome of sharing that? If you don't see a positive outcome, hold it in until you do. If you do see a positive outcome, go for it.

Whatever you do, do your best to put fear aside. If fear is telling you not say what you want to say, it's probably best to say it. If fear is telling you to say something, it's probably best not to say it.

*****

Bottom line: I guess I think you are at a crossroad, and I think it's the justice vs. desire to rebuild with one's WS.

Whichever way you turn, I believe you'll get to similar crossroads in the future. You have to make a choice now, but you'll be faced with the same choice - justice vs desire - again and again in the future.

It's burdensome, to be sure. It's also means you'll have many opportunities to make good choices for yourself, even if you blow one or 2 of those opportunities along the way.

Wood thrush - I have been doing that. I haven't held anything back but it is a bit like groundhog day.
I feel I have compassion and forgiveness for him but I'm still facing a battle between my heart and my head and I keep saying that to my husband but he is struggling to know what to say and the reality is we both just wish he could go back in time and take it away but he can't.
I think the problem is he is understanding if I get triggered by infidelity on TV or therapy or just want to talk about it but he feels it's becoming my default whenever I'm upset. This is probably true, but, it's not intentional, it's just what my traumatized brain does.

Oldwounds - it is definitely taking longer than I want it too. I cringe now when I think how naive I was in the early days after DD...I actually thought that as my husbands affair happened so many years ago and we had had lots of good days since and there was no affair fog to deal with I'd heal quicker! 🫣
It's so hard to rationally know he's not that man anymore whilst also facing WTF moments remembering what he did!

I'm 16 months post DD...

I'd imagine that you already know what I'm going to write simply because I highlighted the above.

Years, Evio. This shit takes years to process. It takes years to heal.

Sucks, doesn't it?

What you're describing is perfectly normal. I completely understand, because I've been there and done that, and read from pah-lenty of betrayed spouses in R.

I think reconciliation primarily occurs within ourselves. Yes, there's a ton of issues that have to be resolved between the spouses for R to succeed. There's more to it, however. Both spouses have to reconcile with themselves, although in very different ways.

I tried very hard to reconcile with myself. In a way, I did. It took me about six years to realize that I was never going to love my exww the way she wanted me to. Infidelity is a deal-breaker for me. She broke the deal. And while I honestly felt we'd reconciled our relationship and marriage, I still wrestled with those feelings of anger, resentment and revulsion. But it wasn't with her; it was with me. I felt like I was betraying myself. I needed to be a more authentic person.

I don't know if sharing all of your feelings with your husband will help with reconciliation. That depends upon his ability to hear it, listen and absorb, to be present with you.

Being authentic... priceless.

Focus on you and your healing. I know I write this often, and that I've done so on a "few" of your threads... BUT! it's sooo important.

Being at peace with ourselves allows us to be at peace with others.

You're going to have to wrestle with these conflicting states for a while longer. Just remember to be gentle with yourself.

Sissoon - your reply has given me a lot to think about.

I hope I'll make the right decision but Im scared I might jeopardise my chance of making this decision by pushing my husband away by sharing so many negative thoughts that make up my internal dialog (I try to keep some to myself but they usually bubble out)...I'm the same with my mum and often get told I'm too blunt with her when I don't mean to be (eg commenting on her hoarding).

As for telling my husband I'm struggling with my decision...to be honest, I don't think I ever actually made a formal decision to reconcile and I regularly say things like 'if we are still together' when talking about the future. Planning the future used to be my favourite thing to do...I'd be planning Christmas in July. Now I don't look beyond tomorrow, something my husband pointed out last week 😞 Maybe I've got stuck on the fence? I did actually buy him a card and a token gift to express my commitment to reconciliation but I'm scared to give it to him. It's like I'm keeping one foot in and one out of the marriage in an attempt to avoid being hurt but I'm tired of keeping this up and need to rest on one side or the other before I collapsed in the middle!

I absolutely see it as my job to heal and my decision to make. I actually can visualise myself healing now and I'd like that to be with my husband but it's like I have a set of scales in front of me with reconciliation, forgiveness and compassion on one side and divorce, disgust and anger on the other and every time my husband doesn't react to my triggers the way I want him to, the side of divorce rises. When I see him visibly express his remorse and regret, the reconciliation side rises.

I don't intentionally bring it up to hurt him, more to express my hurt, but I guess deep down as I said above, seeing him hurt or shamed makes me feel better about staying as it reminds me of his humanity and in a way alleviates my shame for staying if that makes sense?

Maybe I should ask him for what I need when I'm triggered (like reassurance, affection) rather than constantly reminding him WHY I am triggered and this back and forth of staying or leaving that goes through my head?

As for the fear and crossroads, I am scared. I'm scared I will live like this forever and never let it go, or I will leave to escape the pain, shame and injustice but mourn for my husband who I love.

[This message edited by Evio at 6:59 PM, Sunday, April 19th]

Maybe I've got stuck on the fence?

It's not the most comfortable place to sit, although I tend to encourage people to get nice and comfy up there. And for good reasons.

It seems to me that most betrayed spouses need about two years to decide whether R is going well enough to stay on the path. There's too much to consider, too many conflicting thoughts and emotions, too many fears and doubts, to work through more quickly than we'd like. We get impatient. We want to be able to put it all behind us way before we're even close to being ready.

I think this may be a part of your issue; impatience. And I get it! Surviving infidelity sucks!

Feeling "stuck" on the fence is an acknowledgement that you're still trying to decide. An that's perfectly okay. Get comfy up there. Explore the possibilities, the pros and cons, of either side of that fence. When you're ready, you'll jump down on the side that leads to peace and happiness.

Maybe I've got stuck on the fence?

Have you seen the Princess bride or read the book? In it the Dread Pirate Roberts…

…hires Westley as a personal attendant. While Roberts is impressed with Westley's work, he continues to keep Westley's future in doubt by saying each night, "Good night, Westley. Good work. Sleep well. I'll most likely kill you in the morning." After about three years, Roberts and Westley have grown close, and Roberts promotes Westley to his second-in-command.

Replace "kill" with "divorce" and it’s not a bad strategy.

I just don't know if these feelings will ever change. It's like I can get over the pain but not the moral dilemma. I don't think it helps that I have childhood trauma and may be neurodivergent. I just feel like whether I stay or leave my marriage, this moral dilemma will haunt me.

I really felt this part of what you wrote and the distinction between the pain and the moral side of it is something I recognise as well. I also hear what you are saying about trauma and being neurodivergent as have lived experience of that side too and for me it does not explain or take away from the choices that were made. It does make the way we process and sit with things afterwards feel much deeper and harder to resolve. That moral dilemma described is exactly that as it is not just about what happened but what it means and how it fits with your values. From where I am I am trying not to force an answer to that part yet but just noticing it and giving it time to settle in its own way - you are not alone in feeling this.

[This message edited by ButterflyInProgress at 5:26 PM, Monday, April 20th]

I hope I'll make the right decision but Im scared I might jeopardise my chance of making this decision by pushing my husband away by sharing so many negative thoughts that make up my internal dialog

I'm not as far along as you are at almost exactly 1 year, so take what I say with a grain if salt. I do think my wife and I are moving along very smoothly, well, as smoothly as a situation like this can be for this short-ish period of time.

Once I got past that first month or few weeks after d day where I was just putting up with a lot of crap, I ran all out of f*cks to give and put my foot down. I decided that if anything I feel or say would push her away, then she's not someone I can reconcile with. I stopped worrying about jeopardizing any chances we might have and just opened the floodgates on my emotions, but I did it in a calm and measured fashion.

I didn't just lose my crap like a bull in a China shop. I don't raise my voice or name call or anything, but I stopped holding back and still don't to this day. If it's on my mind, if it's bothering me, I bring it up and we talk about it. If she can't handle my grief, pain and emotions, if I can't let it out, tell her how I'm feeling and her actually sit with me, discomfort and all, then I just don't think we can make it. I stopped worrying about pushing her away or jeopardizing our reconciliation. As far as I'm concerned this is reconciliation. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

So far, she's been right with me. She doesn't avoid or try to escape the discomfort of my pain. She sits with me in it, acknowledges it, and does her best to apologize, console, and reassure me. The fact that she does that means a lot. It reassures me knowing that she's not going to run off when things get tough. If we can make it through this, we can make it through anything. Plus I think it's helping us bond. Going through a hard time with someone like this is a bonding experience and her consistent presence, even when it gets tough, says something meaningful to me.

Hey Evio —

Pretty solid observation here by Pogre:

I don't raise my voice or name call or anything, but I stopped holding back and still don't to this day. If it's on my mind, if it's bothering me, I bring it up and we talk about it. If she can't handle my grief, pain and emotions, if I can't let it out, tell her how I'm feeling and her actually sit with me, discomfort and all, then I just don't think we can make it. I stopped worrying about pushing her away or jeopardizing our reconciliation. As far as I'm concerned this is reconciliation.

If there is any kind of silver lining to the unique Hell we are all in, it is this.

Infidelity is a chance to burn away all of the bull….erm…gamesmanship.

Pre-A we kind of hope and project and hold back, and make bad trades and compromises to keep the peace or hold up an image of what we HOPE the M is — and none of it actually helped the M.

Evio, I think you are doing your own healing work, you are standing up for you and you KNOW you will ultimately be okay, regardless of your path forward (R or D).

To me, rebuilt intimacy has centered around me being 100 percent me 24/7.

By this I mean what Pogre mentioned — I don’t ever hold a single thing back. And I will not, ever again.

The final ingredient to my healing is authenticity.

I don’t pretend the A didn’t happen.

I don’t ignore the changes my wife has made either.

But every single day, I wake up and choose my wife, choose my day.

My health and welfare is all on me, and my M is simply a chance to enhance my happiness, not make or break it.

Pogre’s point is the upside of R, is that we get to tell the world exactly what we’re thinking, and a good spouse is all in on helping us by hearing our concerns and our pain (and the good stuff on good days too).

The moral aspect for me is also clear.

I never ALLOWED my wife’s bad choices, they were made in secret. If I allow or enable NEW shitty behavior, that would be a dilemma, but I don’t.

I help up my end of the deal, my honor is also clear.

All I did was give my wife one last chance, and she grabbed on to it and we’re better for it.

Offering forgiveness or kindness to someone who hurt us is (to me) can be a good thing, as long as, again, we no longer accept any of the games, lies or negative behaviors our spouses utilized to previously justify bad behavior.

Be sure to keep venting all of your concerns to your husband. If he wants the M, he will want to HEAR ALL OF IT!

Then he either wins back enough trust for you to decide or he doesn’t.

Just know you can be all you, pain and all, sadness and all, and any new happiness along the way and never have to hold back ever again about anything.

I experienced this in a completely different way…
I met my wife about 18 months after my d-day, when I thought I was fully recovered. She’s wonderful, and we have been togeher for… wow… 37 years or so… Some even happy 😊
About 12-15 years into our marriage things were strained. I have to raise my hand and accept a large share of the issues. I realized that I was applying the infidelity-impacted yardstick on her behaviors, actions and our marriage. So if she was late home from the gym I would get all tense and worried and be a jerk for the rest of the evening.
I was fortunate to have had the sense to seek IC. I thought I needed IC to deal with issues I had dealt with a cop. I realized several behaviors that were classic PTSD, and I associated them to some experienced I had as a cop. Turns out that I was right, there were issues cop-related I had to deal with. But the biggest cause for PTSD turned out to be the infidelity. Who knew walking in on people having sex would leave deeper scars than a six inch blade?

Part of my therapy was the realization that my wife was not the same being as the cheating fiancé. That I couldn’t apply my behavioral yardstick on her and measure off the same numbers as if this was my ex.

Now – this is where it get’s hard for you. Your husband is the same guy as cheated on you.
This has always been a quandry for those reconciling – you reconcile with the enemy.
If you don’t believe in change, in redemption… don’t even try to reconcile. The tough part is the evaluation of change. How honest is he in his work?
If you can, then view him as two people. There is husband – the man he claims to be now – and there is BH – the man he was. Hate the BH – love the H.

I would also recommend you talk to him about this. Hear what he can do to assure you that you have H, and that he is as disgusted with BH as you are.